# Beware of Ataf



## pedrogus (Aug 25, 2015)

Watch out - not only do you have to validate your ticket which mine was - you must also write your name on it and be able to produce photo ID - caught out with 50 euro on spot fine - ejected from bus as were 3 other tourists - 2 of whom were marched to cashpoint. There was no mention of paying at a depot. Have a feeling that we may have all been conned - too late now though and the two guys netted 200 euros for 10 minutes work.
Otherwise really enjoyed the holiday


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## Lourdes (Aug 26, 2015)

Pedrogus, what type of ATAF ticket did you buy? Only family tickets or multiple day passes (as well as Firenze Card holders) need to have a ticket with a name on them, and yes, in that case a photo ID is requested if tickets are checked. 

Were the 3 other tourists caught without a ticket?

While I am very wary of ATAF as well, and DO want to make sure everyone knows how to use the system so they are not caught unawares, I also do not want to spread unnecessary panic here. You make it seem like everyone needs to put their name and a photo ID on their bus ticket when that is not the case, so I am asking for additional information to provide useful info. If anyone else buys the same pass/ticket as you, they will know a name has to be added to the ticket. There is a line there if it is needed, none if it isn't. 

I am sorry it ruined a part of your holiday, so definitely if we spread more awareness of things to avoid, it would be a wonderful public service to continue to offer so others don't fall into the same trap!!


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## pedrogus (Aug 26, 2015)

Lourdes said:


> Pedrogus, what type of ATAF ticket did you buy? Only family tickets or multiple day passes (as well as Firenze Card holders) need to have a ticket with a name on them, and yes, in that case a photo ID is requested if tickets are checked.
> 
> Were the 3 other tourists caught without a ticket?
> 
> ...



Hi

All had tickets - mine was 24hr ticket as was one other - don't know about other two passengers as they were not speaking English, but it was apparent that they had fallen into the same trap. There was no mention of these rules on the machine - who actually reads a bus ticket? I thought I was being economical - bought a ticket for a return trip to Fisole - didn't know if ticket would be easily available there, so paid over the minimum. By the way, the other English speaker had ID and was obviously not trying to defraud Ataf so could easily have been dealt with.  The attitude of the inspector was very abrasive - almost to the extent of targeting tourists, I think we all felt that being tipped of the bus was out of order - the other brit being in her 60's and not sure of how to get back to base - the Atafs just took off to the atm machine with the other two, with no mention of dealing with this at an office - just hand over the cash.....
There is also the issue of carrying ID - something we do not have a problem with in the UK
Generally if Ataf provide a service then they should try and make sure that the rules are visible and understood - a message on the ticket dispenser "make sure you write your name on the ticket and carry a valid ID" would be helpful - but then that would cut their income!
I hope that this message gets through to other tourists - as it could seriously affect their enjoyment of a wonderful holiday.


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## Lourdes (Aug 27, 2015)

OK, to be honest, this is now sounding really quite weird/fishy to me. 

You and the other English speaker had both validated your tickets? Despite you not having written your name on the ticket, if it was validated with the time and date it definitely was showing you were using it for the time you had bought it for and were using the bus system in good faith.

Do you have the ATAF citation you were given? Were they wearing ATAF name tags/badges? Did they give you a receipt showing payment was received?

While you CAN pay the ticket right up front, it is NOT obligatory!!! You have up to 15 days to go to the main ATAF office/window at the train station to pay it without adding any additional charges. You also have the RIGHT to contest the fine. I am writing this for all those others who have yet to come to Florence --- If you feel that the citation does not feel right, CONTEST it right then and there and DON'T PAY THE FINE!

What is sounding the fishiest to me is that they went with people to the ATMs to get paid!!! 

It seems to me that these controllers were taking advantage that you were indeed visitors and would be willing to pay the fine even if it was a minor technicality... If you have the citation, I would scan it and send it along with a COMPLAINT to the main ATAF office. Like you've mentioned, if things were clearer up front to make sure there are no mistakes, and if mistakes are seen as such without being HARASSING, that all goes to the benefit of the city and to tourists so that their entire holiday goes off without a glitch!

The complaint form can be downloaded here:
http://www.ataf.net/System/files/MOD_ RECLAMI.pdf
and sent either by mail to:
Ataf Gestioni srl
V.le dei Mille, 115 
50131 Firenze
Fax: 055-5650209 or email to: segreteria@ataf.fi.it

Make sure to describe the incident with time, date and all that you have written to us here. Also add the fact that the controllers felt like they were harassing tourists and not at all being helpful or courteous.

I am sorry you had to go through this, and to hear that it is a common practice - 4 people on one bus, and all tourists with tickets in hand, is indeed too many!


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## pedrogus (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks for the reply - I will contact Ataf as you suggest - can't download /print at moment, but will definately follow your advice.
The two Ataf "employees"  - one approx 30ish, gave impression of being ex military/police the other older seemed embarassed and took little part in proceedings except in taking cash and handing over official looking receipt from duplicate pad, which I still have.
Just hope that if it is a scam then this may help put a stop to it, and if not it may alert Ataf about their inspectors being in need of some training in how to deal with tourists.
many thanks
I will keep you informed of any developments


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## Lourdes (Aug 27, 2015)

Yes, please update us when you can.

It actually sounds like they were legit but definitely one was having/loving his power and taking advantage of it. Sorry to hear the older man was not offering better advice or mode of operation, though.

In any case, you have also alerted us to some additional information to give out -- hoping more people find our site before they come on their visit so that they are better prepared, knowing of some things they might end up experiencing.


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## pedrogus (Nov 18, 2015)

Lourdes said:


> Yes, please update us when you can.
> 
> It actually sounds like they were legit but definitely one was having/loving his power and taking advantage of it. Sorry to hear the older man was not offering better advice or mode of operation, though.
> 
> In any case, you have also alerted us to some additional information to give out -- hoping more people find our site before they come on their visit so that they are better prepared, knowing of some things they might end up experiencing.



Finally have a reply from ATAF - in Italian! with, I think, references to ATAF regulations. But there is a reference to the delay in dealing with this issue which I don't understand. Perhaps someone could translate and let me know.

However, there is no mention of my concerns about a possible con being operated on their busses. An indication of the fine being legitimate would clear up any concerns.

see reply below - almost 3 months - must be v.slow or have an awful lot of complaints to deal with

In relazione allo scritto difensivo inerente i verbali in oggetto, Le comunichiamo che, avendo effettuato il pagamento della sanzione  (con le modalità e nei termini di cui all’art. 25 – comma 8 – della L.R. n. 42/1998), il procedimento sanzionatorio è estinto ai sensi dell’art. 8 – comma 1 – della L.R. n. 81/2000.

              Distinti saluti
Regards


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## Lourdes (Nov 19, 2015)

Thank you for coming back here and doing the update - even after 3 months!

I have to be honest and say I'm not surprised it took this long. Italian administrative-anything always takes too long.

The answer they have given you is quite bad from a customer service point of view --- they basically say that, because you paid the fine, they are closing the sanction against you.... and they are completely ignoring your complaint. Because you paid. They cite legal clauses to say that they are justified in handling it this way. It almost makes it seem that they would have paid more attention if you hadn't paid on the spot (but of course, they'd also be asking for additional late fees if you hadn't paid).

I'm sorry - wish I could offer more help here for your case. What we will do is get in touch with ATAF and see if they can provide a more clear answer as to what happened and to the procedure they follow, showing them this thread. I hope I can get in touch with someone who is willing to help.


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## Micz_micz (Jun 30, 2016)

*Help and advise needed for ATAF incident.*



Lourdes said:


> Thank you for coming back here and doing the update - even after 3 months!
> 
> I have to be honest and say I'm not surprised it took this long. Italian administrative-anything always takes too long.
> 
> ...




Hi, need a little advise as I've faced the same situation earlier today and the conductor fined a total of 8 tourists in the span of a few minutes! I really felt that this treatment I would like to appeal for a refund of the fine. Please see below my story:

My family and I was quite happy to visit Florence, until today where I almost got pickpocket not once but TWICE in the bus and technically got robbed under broad daylight by so called ATAF authorised conductors. 

Before coming to Europe we've done our research and know that we MUST validate our bus tickets upon boarding the bus. Today (30.06.2016) at approx 6.03pm my family and I boarded the bus and immediately validated the bus ticket (attached photo), less than a minute later a conductor came on board and requested to check our tickets which we obliged. Upon handing over our tickets the conductor left the bus and went elsewhere and left not just my family but also another family of tourist confused as we did not know what is happening. 

1 minute later, he came back up and demanded us to get off the bus immediately. Once we got down the bus, the conductor informed me and my family saying that we did not write our name on the bus ticket hence we will be fined 50 euros per person. We were not even aware that we had to write down our name as the past day we were here the only rule given from locals is that as long as we validate our tickets at the machine then we will not be fined. 

Furthermore, in the ticket it specifically says: "Valid for 24 hours after validation. Enter your name in the space provided. Ticket is personal and not transferable. To be validated on boarding the first vehicle, retained intact until expiry time. To be shown on demand accompanied by an identity document."

In the above note(attached photo), there was NO mention that we are to be fined for not writing our names. Also, the bus reminders are to ask people to ensure that they have validated their ticket at the machine. Being a tourist who does not speak Italian this is very tough for us as we tried our level best to adhere to the local rules here but unfortunately the rules are not tourist friendly and were not explicitly explained to tourists especially to the ones that does not understand the language. 

When speaking to the conductor, he demanded that I have a choice to pay the lowest amount of fine which is 50 Euros on the spot or pay a higher fine if I were to delay the payment. As we did not understand how this fine system works here we were not confident to pay the fine at that exact point of time. The conductor then said that if you do not pay the fine, his company (which is ATAF) has our passport details and can turn us into criminals. Is this how Florence people should treat clueleas tourists? 

To add on to the incident, I've realized that the conductor only asked to check tickets of us tourists and not even bothered to approach the locals which was also on the bus. If the implementation of such system is to ensure that no one abuses the system by freely hopping on the bus without paying, why only focus on clueless tourists which paid and validated the ticket and ignore the locals??? 

We ended up paying the fine as we were clueless on what we should be doing and the conductors were not helpful at all but started to sound threatening and just ended up walking away once we enquired further about not paying on the spot. Post the whole incident, I've finally got the time to digest the summons that he and his colleague written for us and realized that the time of the summon written was also INCORRECT! The incident happened AFTER we validated our ticket but the summon is dated at approximately 6pm - 2 of the summon timings was also changed after that (From 6.08pm & 6.05pm to 6pm) so that the summon clearly stated that we made a mistake on our end. 

If this is how tourists visiting Florence should be treated then unfortunate to say that I am deeply disappointed. I came to Florence wanting to see the beautiful places and meet the amazing people here but this incident have left me very disapointed with the way how these so call ATAF conductors handled with the situation.

Below link is to the photos I've shared for your reference. 
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153639980147409&id=745007408&set=o.221483544591158


Thanks, 
Michelle


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## Lourdes (Jul 1, 2016)

So sorry to read about and here about these sort of incidents taking place, particularly if you feel that you were targeted as opposed to other people on the bus for a "control". Were you still stopped at the bus stop when you got the ticket? You make it seem like the controller got off the bus and came back, so the bus must have been stopped?

If you're still in Florence, you can file a complaint - but since you paid, you can't file a request to have the fine cancelled 
You can do it at the *Ataf Point *within the Santa Maria Novella train station, at window 8 and 9 in the ticket area. Open Monday-Saturday 7:00am – 8:00pm (closed Sundays and holidays).

Our city mayor is quite active on Facebook, I would post on his page and see if there is a response. I am seeing way too many of these posts that say the controllers go after tourists who have tickets in hand and fine you for small _technicalities_. Makes me mad to think they are taking advantage (the controllers, likely to meet their daily quotas) and it hurts the city overall!! 
I will do what I can to also raise the issue and see if I can also raise up some questions about this. 
Here is his page: https://www.facebook.com/darionardella/

Thank you for sharing, I am deeply sorry it had to happen and hope that in time you will remember the happy memories you have of Florence more fondly and forget this incident.


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## Stindl (Feb 28, 2017)

We also had a very bad experience last week in Florence, when we went there to watch a football game. When we arrived at Florence Mainstation we watched out for Bus Line Nr. 11 to drive to our hotel. My friend and me saw the bus at the bus station and jumped in. The doors closed directly behind us and we took a look back outside to see, where our three fellows travelling with us were. They didn´t managed it to get in the bus and the bus drove on. I talked to my friend what to do now (driving on without our friends or hopp off on the next station). My friend said that at first we should buy a bus ticket. I told him that we can do that at the driver. Exactly in the same moment a man stepped beside us and asked for our bus tickets. He showed us an ID card and something like a sheriff star, like in a western movie or from a carnival shop. We told him that we want to buy it at the driver. But he said, that this is not possible and he wants to see our documents. He was very aggressive and rude, shouting out, that he will call the police an we will get arrested, if wo don´t show him our documents. I told him, that he should please call the police, I won´t do anything without police. He took out his mobile and began to make a call.

We went off the next stop (after perhaps 150 meters at Piazza della Stazione) with these three „ticket-inspectors“, they where meanwhile. We got a lot of loud and hectic discussions and they always repeated, that it´s not possible to buy a ticket onboard a bus in Italy (which is a lie, I did it on two more trips at the same day for 2,00 € at the driver). Finally we gave them our ID card and they began to write something like a fine ticket on an official looking pad of paper. I told them, that I will not pay or do anything without the police. When they where finished, they gave us back our ID cards and wanted my friend to sign on his fine ticket. He said, that he won´t sign anything he doesn´t understand because all was written in italian. At this moment, they packed in all there staff, said something like „ok, your problem“, one inspector showed something about 240 € fine at the back of he papers. They  jumped into the next bus standing an the Piazza della Stazione and drove away. End of action…

What will happen now? We didn´t sign anything, we got no copy of our fine ticket and police didn´t came, because we waited a few minutes at the Piazza della Stazione thinking about what to do now. I´m still not sure, if they were real ticket-inspectors. This sheriff-star looked quite strange and on their ID card there was only a photo and a long number, but no badges or signs of ATAF. They also had no official ATAF clothes. I saw them a few hours later at the cathedral and took a picture of them. Sadly only one of them is good to see… 

It was disgusting how they threatend us. They made a big scene and weren´t friendly at all. I asked them, if this is the way they welcome tourists in their city, being so annoying and not helping people at all. For me it seemed like a tourist ripp-off. They only talked to us at the bus, not to any locals. And from the moment we entered the bus until the „inspectors“ came to us, it took not longer than 10 seconds (seriously!).


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## DonnaDenise (Feb 28, 2017)

*Ataf*

Buongiorno,

I can not guarantee, but if they didn't give you anything then it sounds as if it wasn't a ticket. However, as far as their clothing go - normally they DO NOT dress officially - so that they can catch the evaders unprepared.  What type of ID did you show them? Something with an address??

Unfortunately not all buses will allow you to purchase a ticket on board.  They "should" be prepared, but now that you can purchase a ticket through your phone with a text message many are not prepared to sell paper tickets. (Send a text message that says "ATAF" to phone numbre 4880105 ... however I believe this will only work if you have an Italian number).

Buon Viaggio,

Donna Denise


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## Stindl (Mar 1, 2017)

Hello Donna Denise,

thank you for your answer. We showed them our german personal ID´s, where also the adress is on. This was not very clever, I think afterwards. We should have waited for the police...

Have you ever heard of things like sheriff stars of the controllers to identify thenselfs? And there was no badge of ATAF on their ID cards, only white with long number and photo. Looked not really official, could be anything. I´m still wondering, why they left the scene when my friend told them, that he would not sign the fine ticket. They said nothing more, nothing about 240 €, paying at the ATAF office, waiting for police or something like that. Just went into the next bus and then up and away.

Regards,
Stindl


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## DonnaDenise (Mar 1, 2017)

*Official ID*

Buongiorno,

I use the bus and train quite frequently, but to be honest I have never seen them flash their ID...but I am going to be looking for someone to use it.  I want to see what it actually looks like and then make a description, so guests can be prepared.

I can't say if they were "real" or not - however, your description makes the whole situation sound rather suspect - which means it has nothing to do with ATAF and the public transport system but rather crooks and thieves.

Buon Viaggio,

Donna Denise


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## Askital (Sep 2, 2019)

*ATAF fine,*

Having travelled all over Italy throughout the years with no issues regard public transport we found ourselves in a similar position to the above concern. We arrived in Florence for our first time a week past Sunday. We bought 4  tickets to get back to the airport (the ones that last 90 minute duration) - 2 tickets for the bus and 2 for the tram, we were leaving Florence to fly home and as we were staying further up in st Lorenzo and had cases we decided not to walk to the train station/tram service as there were too many tourists and a lot of the pavements are narrow. The bus is a very quick journey about 10 minutes maximum. 

My husband put our 2 tickets into the machine on the number 7 bus to validate, the machine clicked but we failed to check the ticket to ensure it was stamped, failure to check they were stamped was our fault but due to the fact we had 2 suitcases, 2 hand luggage and I also had a handbag plus the driver drove away before we were sitting and I almost fell with the jolt+and we had to hold our luggage to avoid them falling over leav8ng us with no free hands it was practically impossible to check them in such a short space of time also , (the day before I did fall backwards and hurt myself falk8ng onto the hard part of the back seat due to the driver moving off before we were sitting/stroke holding onto bars) . Anyway we would never have thought to check if they were stamped as we heard the clicks.

We were almost at the bus terminus when 2 inspectors came on the bus. They approached me and I told them to go to my husband on the opposite side of the bus adjacent to me as he had the tickets which they did accordingly.  They checked our!! tickets and one of them approached me holding the tickets up to my face and said the tickets hadn’t been validated. 

We told the inspectors the tickets were put in the machine, we heard the machine  clicking each time and as the machine was right beside the driver and he was our witness. Instead of approaching the driver with us going with them to speak to the driver both inspectors got off the bus with our tickets and told us to stay on the bus, they were off the bus for over 5 minutes?? Standing talking on the pavement, they came back on then told us to get off the bus and said we had to pay a fine (didn’t mention the cost). 

However I asked them to speak to the driver as he was a witness to my husband putting the tickets in and to also check if the machine was working.  Regarding asking him to speak to  the driver as a witness for us the  inspector said this has nothing to do with the driver ( off course it isn’t technically but I wanted to hear him asking the driver to confirm he saw us putting the tickets in the the machine). To me that is a valid request. 

Anyway they asked for 100€ in cash (we did not have that money in cash as it was well spent in Florence, he the said we had to pay by card now which we felt we had no option to do so and no time to discuss further because we were in a hurry to get to the airport. I notice in the above post that you have 15 days to pay and can appeal if you haven’t paid (we weren’t advised that either) 

I asked him who we should complain to and he said go to the office 8&9 tomorrow as it’s closed on Sunday and they might give us some money back. I pointed out that he could clearly see we were going home(he could see that anyway due to our suitcases and bags), I asked for contact details who to complain to when we were home and he pointed to a url on the back of the ticket. 

I also pointed out why would we do this when we were leaving Italy and the tickets would be of no value or use to us after we left. We felt the inspector knew by that point we were genuine but still went ahead with the fine. 

I feel we were set up and we have been robbed as we found it very  odd that the inspectors got off the bus with our tickets (the bus wasn’t full) they could have easily walked up to the driver on the bus) with bus in tow.  

it was also clear we were leaving Florence and why would we not get the tickets stamped when they were no use to us  afterwards.

I noticed on another forums an American lady who was traveling with 10 other members of her family claimed  she put all 11 tickets into the machine and they were also not stamped and was facing a fine of €1100 but when the inspector saw she had an Italian surname the fines were dropped. 

We are so disappointed and due to this we don’t think we will ever come back to Florence ever again, this has spoiled our holiday and  in fact it has put us off Italy altogether now.   I have emailed segreteria@ataf.fi.it ( I hope this is the correct email address).

Me and my husband are law abiding citizens, have never broke the law, never been fined till this ridiculous situation occurred. Also they were so busy picking on us the rest of the bus from the middle to the drivers end didn’t get checked. Is there any other advice or help anyone can give us, we saved hard for this week holiday and it was ruined by this experience and if not fixed we will never step foot in Tuscany ever again. This seems to be happening to quite a lot of people

Thanks in advance


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## Lourdes (Sep 5, 2019)

Askital - with bags in tow on the way to the airport, it was surely easy to tell you had bought the tickets and were not going to use them again. They clearly picked on you and unfortunately this seems to be what ATAF chooses as their policy towards everyone, but takes advantage of the language difficulties in particular with visitors. I am sorry to hear it happened. In any case, it is likely the driver was not going to take your side at all, saying too many people get on to recall who stamped tickets or not.

Did you already pay and how did you pay with a card? I'm curious because it seems to me they particularly take advantage in asking for cash on the spot, when it is your right to refuse to pay it.

The email you wrote to is the correct one, they have 30 days to get back to you so you'll have to wait to hear back. I would suggest you use their social channels - including the city mayor's one (his name is Dario Nardella) to write to and complain about this event, considering how much the city depends on tourism I wish they will change their approach to customer service. Not to say that you didn't make a mistake, but the way they handle each situation always seems to me to be quite rude and unnecessarily unkind.


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## Askital (Sep 6, 2019)

Lourdes said:


> Askital - with bags in tow on the way to the airport, it was surely easy to tell you had bought the tickets and were not going to use them again. They clearly picked on you and unfortunately this seems to be what ATAF chooses as their policy towards everyone, but takes advantage of the language difficulties in particular with visitors. I am sorry to hear it happened. In any case, it is likely the driver was not going to take your side at all, saying too many people get on to recall who stamped tickets or not.
> 
> Did you already pay and how did you pay with a card? I'm curious because it seems to me they particularly take advantage in asking for cash on the spot, when it is your right to refuse to pay it.
> 
> The email you wrote to is the correct one, they have 30 days to get back to you so you'll have to wait to hear back. I would suggest you use their social channels - including the city mayor's one (his name is Dario Nardella) to write to and complain about this event, considering how much the city depends on tourism I wish they will change their approach to customer service. Not to say that you didn't make a mistake, but the way they handle each situation always seems to me to be quite rude and unnecessarily unkind.



Thank you’re kind words Lourdes, we paid by credit card, he asked for cash but we had spent a fortune in Florence and only about €20 euros left for a coffee and a cake in the airport.

There was no mention of the option of not paying/refusing to pay on the spot/appeal.

I got the impression the young inspector may have been a trainee because the older one asked if he could speak English, they then spoke for ages in Italian before turning round and saying we were getting fined. We were  in complete shock and totally embarrassed even although we had nothing to be embarrassed about as we hadn’t done anything wrong  

We had used the bus, trams and trains throughout the week and knew how to validate them, so we 100% didn’t make any mistake and as it appeared the ticket machine was working I can only presume it maybe had ran out of ink)or whatever they use to put the time/date on it, the driver looked a bit embarrassed to be honest.

Obviously we don't very highly of this system as I’m sure the older one was old enough and wise enough to be able to work out who’s genuine and who's not.

Here’s the thing we were up in the Michaelangelo gardens Piazza):earlier in the week and we intended walking down but due to the heat I felt a bit unwell so,my husband went over to the number 13 bus (we didn’t have tickets) just our card and the lovely young driver got out his drivers seat to assist, so there was i very impressed and thankful and thinking ATAF was great only for that horrible incident to make me change our mind.

You're correct about dependence on tourism and if they continue to behave like that they will lose tourists.

When we get a reply from ATAF I’ll let you know fingers crossed we do as its clear to see in our case anyway, we weren’t cheating at all and we’ve been left with not a good impression. 

Re social media,I took a look at it yesterday and my goodness the amount of people this is happening to is astonishing and not everyone will have posted or can’t post about this carry on. 

Thanks again and I’ll keep you updated

Askital


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## Lourdes (Oct 17, 2019)

Askital - any updates from Ataf yet?


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## Askital (Nov 24, 2019)

*Fine appeal*



Lourdes said:


> Askital - any updates from Ataf yet?


Got nowhere,
They said because the fines were signed, we agreed to the fine, I pointed out couldn’t read or speak Italian and that my fine had been written incorrectly making it invalid (only noticing when I got home and we were in a hurry to get to the airport and as they had held us up by about 30 minutes we had no time to dispute it properly.  I wrote back but over a month ago have heard nothing, not even an acknowledgement .

Have  you any idea what I can do next especially as the conductor said to go to the office the next day to get some refund .


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